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Post by Admin on Sept 5, 2015 8:20:03 GMT -6
Just want to let everyone know we'll do doing a slew of minor balance changes in a couple turns. I'm telling you all now so that they don't catch you off guard, and I'm doing them all at once so that we get one big re-balancing instead of a bunch of constant tweaks. I won't say exactly when the changes will go into effect, but it'll be a couple turns from now. Changes will include:
Trade Revenue will be reduced from 1/50th to 1/60th of combined economies A line of "Administrative" Sectors will be added that contribute to Order and support Agents (similar to how military sectors support military units) The Economy Rating boost from Orbital Spaceport will be reduced by 10 Orbital and System Shipyards MAY receive a boost to economy and/or ship numbers Military Sectors will no longer provide "free Recruitment," but their "fortifications" will be more effective (resistant to orbital bombardment) Cost for new Blueprints will be reduced to 5 or 6
If you have any comments or suggestions about the changes, feel free to post them here.
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Post by RWU on Sept 5, 2015 17:14:40 GMT -6
I'm gonna give some pushback on a couple points here:
1) Why no free recruitment? There should be a baseline standing army for everyone without needing to mobilize, and Military Districts fill that function. Otherwise instead of saving 1 credit/turn with a Military District, you might as well "save" 2-3 credits/turn with a Commercial Sector or even more with extra trade routes. Yeah the better fortifications are cool, but they're not really a game changer. In fact, I thought they were already resistant to orbital bombardment in the first place, and I think they should be (in addition to free recruitment). *The proof that Military Sectors are not broken is the fact that with a bit of time to mobilize, Spork and I basically defeated dlord's Military Sector Spam invasion before vak even arrived.
2) Shipyards need to be way buffed, not just a little. It's the same issue as a Military Sector without free recruitment, except they don't even provide defenses. Either quantitatively boost them by letting them house way more ships (and boost the Martial Rule bonus proportionally), or give them a new important function like unlocking hulls or reducing ship construction costs.
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Post by vaklu on Sept 7, 2015 18:45:27 GMT -6
I think Military sectors shouldn't provide free replacement. ie: when you build the sector you get an army and the sector provide it's upkeep. if the army is wiped out you must pay to replace it and the new army can be assigned to the sector for it's upkeep requirements.
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Post by RWU on Sept 7, 2015 21:16:08 GMT -6
Yeah that makes sense, vak. Free replacement is kinda OP.
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Post by dragonlord7012 on Sept 7, 2015 21:51:16 GMT -6
A quick turn comparison, (For the sake of simplicity we shall assume all sectors are supposed to be "Equal" production is equal to economy on a 1:1 basis) Military: -1.5 credits, + 1 credit (upkeep/rebuild army) - +.5 credits, +5 production, on turns army is "dead" (Thus poping it the second turn after destruction) -"Hardened"[Black Box'd] Economic - 2.5 credits. Industrial - 1.5 credits, 10 production. SO; by analyis, a military sector performs exactly on par w/ an economic sector on a turn by turn basis, however if the army is destroyed it produces +10 "Economy/Production" more over two turns (Armies regen after two turns) and it is hardened. The downside to this however, is that around 2/5 of this economy is directed to armies. This means that any turn your army isnt being used is a turn it is actually COSTING you to have it, as an opportunity cost.(Quantifiable benefits of being hard to invade, and the value of meta-threats not withstanding) If the change goes through I'm calling for a general rehash for everyone who has military sectors, as the more you have the more screwed over you get. Having a military sector ATM gives you a hit on economy, for a return on combat capability, and a unlisted bonus to invasion difficulty. Possible solutions may be to have a single military sector support 3 armies. I still feel this is massively worse as now the sector not only is an opportunity cost, but you have to pay for the luxary of getting the benefit. If you spawn with the slots filled, thats swell and all, but you still have all the problems of before, only now your Opportunity cost is greatly increased. I could just get a Economic sector and pay for my armies instead, and I can use that money on other things if things are going well. Instigating a rule that you can only reinforce with your military sector when not under siege is a good rule as well. "Planet not having a hostile army on it, and the Military sector in question is not under Naval siege from space." would be my first try at adjusting for it. Note: To explain my Black Boxed comment as well as my exlusion of meta knowledge. The manner in which dice rolls are handled are not listed, nor are the benefits listed for hardened cities. I cannot make factual comparisons to unknown quantities, thus i have to assume they are of a minimum advantage numerically, and just state as such as an aside.) Also in b4 everyone who was thinking about invading me, suddenly being against Military Sectors re-spawning for free.
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Post by ravigen on Sept 7, 2015 22:09:53 GMT -6
Lol, you won no friends with that action Dlord.
Prepare yourself, winter is coming.
Also as a suggestion for the shipyards why not give each ship class a tonnage value and then put a limit on how much each shipyard can afford with military dictatorships getting a good sized bonus
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Post by dragonlord7012 on Sept 7, 2015 22:29:34 GMT -6
If the free-respawns go away, i'm going to go ahead and just resign Rav, so you may wan't to hold of JIC you want to attack a more beneficial target. (I'm tired of getting the short end of the stick w/ decisions as it is, at some point you just gotta walk away.)
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Post by ravigen on Sept 7, 2015 22:30:09 GMT -6
Meh, I'm not leaving my territory, Denova gives no fucks.
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Post by dragonlord7012 on Sept 7, 2015 22:35:38 GMT -6
Ha, I just realized that I literally cannot reach you without going through someone else, or "warp-jumping" I would let other ppl worry about me if i where you as well. I was thinking of ppls screennames in Allis terms in reguards to distance again. (I miss New Allis, thread died) At any rate back on topic.
Spaceports, yea i would maybe give a Total credit support they can perform and go with that. Tonnage is nice, but it adds yet another thing to keep track of. Credit upkeep is a flat rate. Maybe give a nice increase in the total supply, or more thematically, a discount in credit cost.
For Militia; make them more effective with the new implementation?
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Post by Admin on Sept 19, 2015 9:58:03 GMT -6
Changes will go into effect Turn 7. Here is a full list of the changes:
Trade Revenue will be reduced from 1/50th to 1/60th of combined economies "Administrative Sector" will be added as a Terrestrial Tier sector. It will support 1 agent free, boost Econ by 10, and provide +1 Order "Administrative Station" will be added as an Orbital Tier sector. It will provide +2 Order and boost Econ by 25 Order will now influence ALL agent actions, not just covert agents. The Economy Rating boost from Orbital Spaceport will be reduced by 10 Orbital and System Shipyards will provide a 25% (1/4) Credit discount for constructing ships they support. They will also have their Econ rating boosted by 5. Military Sectors will provide a 50% discount (-2 Credits) for recruiting armies they support. Cost for new Blueprints will be reduced to 5 New Players will start with 1 Orbital Sector of their choice and 10 more credits.
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Post by dragonlord7012 on Sept 19, 2015 20:56:45 GMT -6
Couple questions;
Do Administration Stations(Orbital) provide agent support for Agents? (Seems a bit odd it doesn't even support 1)
Does the order improvements effect Agents in friendly spheres of influence. (IE The local government/networks supporting the agent)
Does "Production" receive the discount for Shipyards/Military sectors as well? (IE equipment is on hand to optimize construction)
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Post by Admin on Sept 19, 2015 21:35:11 GMT -6
Administration Station will also support an agent, good catch.
Order sets the DC that enemy agents have to beat when they try to operate in your system.
No, the discounts will only apply to credits, not production or science.
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Post by dragonlord7012 on Sept 20, 2015 20:16:38 GMT -6
Bit of a problem w/ balance.
Research Sector This university is the size of a city, with tens of thousands of professors, millions of students, and tens of millions of staff. -- Increase Economy rating by 10 -- Generates 1 Science / Turn vs
"Administrative Sector" will be added as a Terrestrial Tier sector. It will support 1 agent free, boost Econ by 10, and provide +1 Order
+
Research Agent - A Famous, probably award-winning scientist and assistants. Boosts the output of Labs in the system by +1 Science, can study anomalies, artifacts and phenomena, and can Plagiarize in foreign systems to steal technology.
I'd recommend increasing Economy for Research sectors to 15 as if you don't Admins and Agents are the same but provide +1 order at the cost of 5 biomass credits. Alternatively you can state outright that Research agents can only give +1 science if you have a Lab of some sort, and are limited to 1 agent boosting 1 lab. (Not stated anywhere i could find.)
Clarified out of forum. Agent passive bonuses do not stack.
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